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srfndoc Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010 Posts: 3270 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:53 am Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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bubba wrote: |
OK guys.. heres my know problem.. If you own a bus.. it seems like it changes ever time you improve on one thing.. something else pops up.. I installed a 3:44 R&P tranny in my RGB bus andit goes way to fast for Bias ply tires.. 70-75 MPH with firestone 670-15 bias ply tires is a scary ride.. Florida roads are crowned really bad for rain run off and the bus pulls from side to side every time there is an imperfection in the road.. and at 75MPH its a white knuckle ride!! i want to relax and cruise my bus with out worries of flipping over.. Haha.. Yes i know BP ties drive like that.. It's nothing new..
who has a great looking tire, close to stock that looks like Bias tires but is Radial? Pictures would be very helpful!! |
Coker does have their bias ply look radials but they only have them in 670-15 so they are taller than stock and pricey ($223):
_________________ RPM=(MPH*336* (R&P*4th*1.26))/Tire Diameter in inches |
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bubba Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2004 Posts: 2531 Location: Florida
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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Does anyone have a picture of these on there bus? How do they feel driving? _________________ ***WANTED***
SO-23 Cargo net hooks...
for sale
curtain Bungee cords for SO23, 22, 33 ,34 ,35
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1587591 |
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lightice Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2012 Posts: 599
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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I managed to chance across a front sway bar but am unsure if it's for bay or for split.
And I can't drive over to collect nor can I take it out without paying.
Does anyone have one out that can take some measurements for me?
I measured, from tip to tip its 112.5cm.
Thanks in advance. |
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21-window Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2004 Posts: 248 Location: out planting
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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bubba wrote: |
Does anyone have a picture of these on there bus? How do they feel driving? |
Feel fine
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69734 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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lightice wrote: |
I managed to chance across a front sway bar but am unsure if it's for bay or for split.
And I can't drive over to collect nor can I take it out without paying.
Does anyone have one out that can take some measurements for me?
I measured, from tip to tip its 112.5cm.
Thanks in advance. |
I measured the one I have here and it measures 111.75cm
I think Bay window has the holes in the ends and Split do not?
Bay with hole
Split has C-clamp over flattened end (no hole)
_________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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lightice Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2012 Posts: 599
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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Thanks EB, o man, means its a bay unit.
Can it be ground down and used on a split? Because I've been trying to find one locally for years.
I thought about ordering the empi 9606 but shipping cost more than the item. |
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62DoKaGuy Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011 Posts: 1276 Location: Surprise, AZ
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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I posted this in the "Official Word on RGB's" thread too, hoping to get a consensus:
I want to continue using my stock small nut RGB's on my '62 double cab.
Issue: Removed trans for rebuild, and it's a Sep '64 trans, which Aug '64 Type I owner's manual tells me it should have a 4.375 ratio; with the same 1st, 2nd, and reverse gearing (3.80, 2.06, and 3.88, resp.) as stock '62, but 0.89-4th and 1.32-3rd vs the stock 0.82-4th and 1.22-3rd.
Current Engine: a recently rebuilt 1835cc dual carb
Current Tire: 205/65/15 - approx. 25.5"Ø
Questions: (1) Which transmission gearing setup do you recommend to function well with small nut RGBs, current motor & tires? I will eventually revert back to a stock 40hp or Big Bore 40 - years from now - as well as go with larger diameter tires closer to stock height.
(2) What trans can work for my current setup but also give me a little more oomph down the road, when/if I go to the 40hp?
(3) Should I look for a stock transmission correctly geared for my '62?
From what I have read a 4.12 is better than 4.375 when using small-nut RGBs, but the .089-4th might be good to keep...thoughts? Is a 4.375 w/ 0.89-4th a bad setup? - seen in other thread...
Again, I want to keep my small nut RGBs. I like stock height, the RGB whine, etc...I don't need/want to fly at 70mph on the highway, and I may from time to time carry weight and go up some nice hills in NorCal or heading to the coast. Any help is appreciated! Most forums I have found deal with Big Nut RGBs and hardly cover small nuts... Thanks in advance. Cheers.
EDIT: Jesus Christ, I'm longwinded... _________________ ,,Wenige Menschen denken, und doch wollen alle entscheiden.'' -der Alte Fritz
EverettB wrote: |
...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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easy e Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 3930 Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:05 am Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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62DoKaGuy wrote: |
I posted this in the "Official Word on RGB's" thread too, hoping to get a consensus:
I want to continue using my stock small nut RGB's on my '62 double cab. |
Problem is you do not state what RPM and MPH for cruising you are shooting for.
Personally for us while we both love the 40 HP and big bore version engines, for a long distance traveling VW they just do not work well and with stock gearing even worse.
You should do a search on "Freeway Flier" and do some reading about it, and different opinions on gearing. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Lind Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000 Posts: 9905 Location: idaho
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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62DoKaGuy wrote: |
I posted this in the "Official Word on RGB's" thread too, hoping to get a consensus:
I want to continue using my stock small nut RGB's on my '62 double cab.
Issue: Removed trans for rebuild, and it's a Sep '64 trans, which Aug '64 Type I owner's manual tells me it should have a 4.375 ratio; with the same 1st, 2nd, and reverse gearing (3.80, 2.06, and 3.88, resp.) as stock '62, but 0.89-4th and 1.32-3rd vs the stock 0.82-4th and 1.22-3rd.
Current Engine: a recently rebuilt 1835cc dual carb
Current Tire: 205/65/15 - approx. 25.5"Ø
Questions: (1) Which transmission gearing setup do you recommend to function well with small nut RGBs, current motor & tires? I will eventually revert back to a stock 40hp or Big Bore 40 - years from now - as well as go with larger diameter tires closer to stock height.
(2) What trans can work for my current setup but also give me a little more oomph down the road, when/if I go to the 40hp?
(3) Should I look for a stock transmission correctly geared for my '62?
From what I have read a 4.12 is better than 4.375 when using small-nut RGBs, but the .089-4th might be good to keep...thoughts? Is a 4.375 w/ 0.89-4th a bad setup? - seen in other thread...
Again, I want to keep my small nut RGBs. I like stock height, the RGB whine, etc...I don't need/want to fly at 70mph on the highway, and I may from time to time carry weight and go up some nice hills in NorCal or heading to the coast. Any help is appreciated! Most forums I have found deal with Big Nut RGBs and hardly cover small nuts... Thanks in advance. Cheers.
EDIT: Jesus Christ, I'm longwinded... |
I drive a stock 61 bus with a stock transmission and a strong 40hp 1200cc engine. It cruises at 62mph all day long. It will do 67mph on the flats with no wind. I use a GPS for my speeds.
I like to thing of things simply as a + or - from stock. + is more power/speed and - is less power/speed. Speed is limited by the gearing and power is available relative to the gearing. The more +s from power only mean more acceleration until you put it behind more gearing. Pretty basic and straight forward.
power side:
40hp to bigbore 40 is +1
40hp to 1500/1600 is +2
40hp to 1776 is +3
40hp to 2000 is +4
smaller tires are +1
speed side:
4.375 to 4.12 is +1
4.375 to 3.88 is +2
4.375 to 3.44 is +3
1.4:1 to 1.26:1 is +1
.82 to .89 is -1
bigger tires are +1
you always want to have equal or greater power than stock. I.E. make sure your power pluses are greater than or equal to your gearing pluses.
To answer your questions, going with a 40hp engine, you are limited to stock gearing (4.375 X .82 X 1.4). If you go up one step to a bigbore 40hp then you can go one step with gearing or tires. Stepping up to 6.70s or 215/75s or slipping in a set of little-bignut gears are the easiest way to go. If you go with a stock transmission, you can easily go two steps up with the little-bignuts and tires and keep your current engine which will still be overpowered. Then when you decide to put the 40hp in, just swap the tires, and put the stock gears in the boxes and you are good to go without having to unbolt your reduction boxes.
you can do a lot of math with gear ratios and such. Just make sure your power to gearing ratio is equal or greater than stock and you will be fine. Excess power is over-rated. It mainly translates to more acceleration which doesn't do much for you once you are at speed. You will have to go into third gear on hills. Each + in the power department is just 100 more yards up the hill before you shift into third.
if you are unfamiliar with the little-big gears, they are what was used in 1963 1500cc buses. They have the same ratio as bignut gears, but they fit into small nut boxes. You need to put a spacer under the axle nut to make it work.
how is that for a longwinded response? _________________ .
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
. |
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62DoKaGuy Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011 Posts: 1276 Location: Surprise, AZ
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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easy e wrote: |
4-month gratuitous bump for 62DoKaGuy. |
Haha, thanks! I forgot about this post; it has been that long. _________________ ,,Wenige Menschen denken, und doch wollen alle entscheiden.'' -der Alte Fritz
EverettB wrote: |
...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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62DoKaGuy Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011 Posts: 1276 Location: Surprise, AZ
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
62DoKaGuy wrote: |
I posted this in the "Official Word on RGB's" thread too, hoping to get a consensus:
I want to continue using my stock small nut RGB's on my '62 double cab. |
Problem is you do not state what RPM and MPH for cruising you are shooting for.
Personally for us while we both love the 40 HP and big bore version engines, for a long distance traveling VW they just do not work well and with stock gearing even worse.
You should do a search on "Freeway Flier" and do some reading about it, and different opinions on gearing. |
I researched over the course of several weeks before posting. Most seem to only discuss big-nut RGBs and did little but create more questions. I already decided, received and have been driving around with complete stock gearing, correct for '62 small nut transaxle. Thanks, everyone, just the same. Cheers.
EDIT: Daddy likey, plus it makes the eventual switch back to 40hp or maybe big bore 40 an easier one, without having to also worry about the trans at that time. _________________ ,,Wenige Menschen denken, und doch wollen alle entscheiden.'' -der Alte Fritz
EverettB wrote: |
...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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62DoKaGuy Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011 Posts: 1276 Location: Surprise, AZ
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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Lind wrote: |
62DoKaGuy wrote: |
I posted this in the "Official Word on RGB's" thread too, hoping to get a consensus:
I want to continue using my stock small nut RGB's on my '62 double cab.
Issue: Removed trans for rebuild, and it's a Sep '64 trans, which Aug '64 Type I owner's manual tells me it should have a 4.375 ratio; with the same 1st, 2nd, and reverse gearing (3.80, 2.06, and 3.88, resp.) as stock '62, but 0.89-4th and 1.32-3rd vs the stock 0.82-4th and 1.22-3rd.
Current Engine: a recently rebuilt 1835cc dual carb
Current Tire: 205/65/15 - approx. 25.5"Ø
Questions: (1) Which transmission gearing setup do you recommend to function well with small nut RGBs, current motor & tires? I will eventually revert back to a stock 40hp or Big Bore 40 - years from now - as well as go with larger diameter tires closer to stock height.
(2) What trans can work for my current setup but also give me a little more oomph down the road, when/if I go to the 40hp?
(3) Should I look for a stock transmission correctly geared for my '62?
From what I have read a 4.12 is better than 4.375 when using small-nut RGBs, but the .089-4th might be good to keep...thoughts? Is a 4.375 w/ 0.89-4th a bad setup? - seen in other thread...
Again, I want to keep my small nut RGBs. I like stock height, the RGB whine, etc...I don't need/want to fly at 70mph on the highway, and I may from time to time carry weight and go up some nice hills in NorCal or heading to the coast. Any help is appreciated! Most forums I have found deal with Big Nut RGBs and hardly cover small nuts... Thanks in advance. Cheers.
EDIT: Jesus Christ, I'm longwinded... |
I drive a stock 61 bus with a stock transmission and a strong 40hp 1200cc engine. It cruises at 62mph all day long. It will do 67mph on the flats with no wind. I use a GPS for my speeds.
I like to thing of things simply as a + or - from stock. + is more power/speed and - is less power/speed. Speed is limited by the gearing and power is available relative to the gearing. The more +s from power only mean more acceleration until you put it behind more gearing. Pretty basic and straight forward.
power side:
40hp to bigbore 40 is +1
40hp to 1500/1600 is +2
40hp to 1776 is +3
40hp to 2000 is +4
smaller tires are +1
speed side:
4.375 to 4.12 is +1
4.375 to 3.88 is +2
4.375 to 3.44 is +3
1.4:1 to 1.26:1 is +1
.82 to .89 is -1
bigger tires are +1
you always want to have equal or greater power than stock. I.E. make sure your power pluses are greater than or equal to your gearing pluses.
To answer your questions, going with a 40hp engine, you are limited to stock gearing (4.375 X .82 X 1.4). If you go up one step to a bigbore 40hp then you can go one step with gearing or tires. Stepping up to 6.70s or 215/75s or slipping in a set of little-bignut gears are the easiest way to go. If you go with a stock transmission, you can easily go two steps up with the little-bignuts and tires and keep your current engine which will still be overpowered. Then when you decide to put the 40hp in, just swap the tires, and put the stock gears in the boxes and you are good to go without having to unbolt your reduction boxes.
you can do a lot of math with gear ratios and such. Just make sure your power to gearing ratio is equal or greater than stock and you will be fine. Excess power is over-rated. It mainly translates to more acceleration which doesn't do much for you once you are at speed. You will have to go into third gear on hills. Each + in the power department is just 100 more yards up the hill before you shift into third.
if you are unfamiliar with the little-big gears, they are what was used in 1963 1500cc buses. They have the same ratio as bignut gears, but they fit into small nut boxes. You need to put a spacer under the axle nut to make it work.
how is that for a longwinded response? |
Haha, when a man wants a thorough answer, he looks to Lind apparently! Thanks for the longwindedness, a little late but appreciated. Oddly, I do have '63 only one-ton small nut transaxle sitting around for whatever reason...but, that would take me another step away from stock. Can't do it. Thanks again, Lind, cheers. _________________ ,,Wenige Menschen denken, und doch wollen alle entscheiden.'' -der Alte Fritz
EverettB wrote: |
...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20233 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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62DoKaGuy wrote: |
Lind wrote: |
62DoKaGuy wrote: |
I posted this in the "Official Word on RGB's" thread too, hoping to get a consensus:
I want to continue using my stock small nut RGB's on my '62 double cab.
Issue: Removed trans for rebuild, and it's a Sep '64 trans, which Aug '64 Type I owner's manual tells me it should have a 4.375 ratio; with the same 1st, 2nd, and reverse gearing (3.80, 2.06, and 3.88, resp.) as stock '62, but 0.89-4th and 1.32-3rd vs the stock 0.82-4th and 1.22-3rd.
Current Engine: a recently rebuilt 1835cc dual carb
Current Tire: 205/65/15 - approx. 25.5"Ø
Questions: (1) Which transmission gearing setup do you recommend to function well with small nut RGBs, current motor & tires? I will eventually revert back to a stock 40hp or Big Bore 40 - years from now - as well as go with larger diameter tires closer to stock height.
(2) What trans can work for my current setup but also give me a little more oomph down the road, when/if I go to the 40hp?
(3) Should I look for a stock transmission correctly geared for my '62?
From what I have read a 4.12 is better than 4.375 when using small-nut RGBs, but the .089-4th might be good to keep...thoughts? Is a 4.375 w/ 0.89-4th a bad setup? - seen in other thread...
Again, I want to keep my small nut RGBs. I like stock height, the RGB whine, etc...I don't need/want to fly at 70mph on the highway, and I may from time to time carry weight and go up some nice hills in NorCal or heading to the coast. Any help is appreciated! Most forums I have found deal with Big Nut RGBs and hardly cover small nuts... Thanks in advance. Cheers.
EDIT: Jesus Christ, I'm longwinded... |
I drive a stock 61 bus with a stock transmission and a strong 40hp 1200cc engine. It cruises at 62mph all day long. It will do 67mph on the flats with no wind. I use a GPS for my speeds.
I like to thing of things simply as a + or - from stock. + is more power/speed and - is less power/speed. Speed is limited by the gearing and power is available relative to the gearing. The more +s from power only mean more acceleration until you put it behind more gearing. Pretty basic and straight forward.
power side:
40hp to bigbore 40 is +1
40hp to 1500/1600 is +2
40hp to 1776 is +3
40hp to 2000 is +4
smaller tires are +1
speed side:
4.375 to 4.12 is +1
4.375 to 3.88 is +2
4.375 to 3.44 is +3
1.4:1 to 1.26:1 is +1
.82 to .89 is -1
bigger tires are +1
you always want to have equal or greater power than stock. I.E. make sure your power pluses are greater than or equal to your gearing pluses.
To answer your questions, going with a 40hp engine, you are limited to stock gearing (4.375 X .82 X 1.4). If you go up one step to a bigbore 40hp then you can go one step with gearing or tires. Stepping up to 6.70s or 215/75s or slipping in a set of little-bignut gears are the easiest way to go. If you go with a stock transmission, you can easily go two steps up with the little-bignuts and tires and keep your current engine which will still be overpowered. Then when you decide to put the 40hp in, just swap the tires, and put the stock gears in the boxes and you are good to go without having to unbolt your reduction boxes.
you can do a lot of math with gear ratios and such. Just make sure your power to gearing ratio is equal or greater than stock and you will be fine. Excess power is over-rated. It mainly translates to more acceleration which doesn't do much for you once you are at speed. You will have to go into third gear on hills. Each + in the power department is just 100 more yards up the hill before you shift into third.
if you are unfamiliar with the little-big gears, they are what was used in 1963 1500cc buses. They have the same ratio as bignut gears, but they fit into small nut boxes. You need to put a spacer under the axle nut to make it work.
how is that for a longwinded response? |
Haha, when a man wants a thorough answer, he looks to Lind apparently! Thanks for the longwindedness, a little late but appreciated. Oddly, I do have '63 only one-ton small nut transaxle sitting around for whatever reason...but, that would take me another step away from stock. Can't do it. Thanks again, Lind, cheers. |
^^^ Excellent synopsis, Lind. This is the info I try, and possibly fail, to convey to folks that seem to want big engines and/or "freeway Flyer" trannies. All parts need to work together, including tire diameter, to achieve a positive end result. _________________ nothing |
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twurts Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2016 Posts: 11 Location: Chester Springs PA
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:47 am Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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So stock bus / RGB gurus...
Here at the beginning of 2017, what is the current best option for disc brakes for RGBs in the back and stock front beam?
And what is the impact to which wheels/tires to run? |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20233 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:53 am Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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Not sure that disc brakes for RBG rear are available yet. I know it was being designed and tested, but I don't think I have seen them commercially available yet. _________________ nothing |
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easy e Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 3930 Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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twurts wrote: |
So stock bus gurus... what is the best option for disc brakes... |
Title of this thread doesn't suit your inquiry (off topic).
There's three pages of disc brake topics... click me _________________ aka: Evan
Spreadsheet for Bus RPM, based on gearing & tire size (Excel format)
Searchable, click-navigable 1958 Bus Parts List |
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twurts Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2016 Posts: 11 Location: Chester Springs PA
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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Apologies, I was asking specifically about RGB disc kits and current availability which seemed like it was a "stock height question" and fit this thread. |
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easy e Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 3930 Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7045 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions |
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1731114 _________________ regards
Uli
----------------------------------------
'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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