Help identifying 356 Pre-A Dash, Clock, Radio

[flynt]

Hello, all. I'm hoping somebody can help me identify what I have here.

I got these parts off the PCA site from a gentleman up in Ventura, CA. He had everything in his '56 356, which his (ex)wife crashed. He hauled the damaged car around for years, through a couple different relocations, and finally decided to pull all the dash parts out and get rid of the rest of the car. He hoped to use the parts in a future build, which never happened. He'd been hauling this stuff around for 44 years!

I'm a Porsche fanatic and parts hoarder. Sometimes I buy and sell to sustain the habit.. I jumped on this stuff because I'd never seen a dash like this, with the rallye clock and signal-seeking radio. Initially I intended to sell or trade for something I can use - I don't have a 356 yet. I've changed my mind, and I have to hold onto this stuff. Cool story, very nice seller, and it's all out of the same car.. It has to stay together.

Short story long, I can't find photos of anything that matches what I've got. Could this be out of a factory rally car or something? The clock in the ashtray spot appears to be factory-stamped. Clock is a Veigel with convex glass, and a twist knob coming out of it. Radio is a signal-seeking Becker Mexico - The only similar ones I've found have been for a Merc 300SL. Stamps on all gauges are mid-55. I also have misc. knobs and bezels, gauge visors.

I'm going to build a shadowbox for this stuff and hang it in the garage until I can build a 356 pre-A replica.. or come across a car at my price point (ha!)
Any help is appreciated.

[tom coughlin]

The car that was crashed was actually a '55 model year. The A dash (1956 thru 1959) was a lot different than a Pre-A and this is a Pre-A dash. Nice find-now get the rest of the car to go with it. Various owners placed clocks where they wanted them. I once knew of one with a clock and altimeter in the glove box door.
Here's a picture of a nicely restored '55.
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://49gf6u...MwgfKAIwAg

[James Davies]

That's a 1955 dash. You can tell because of the grab handle and the single hole for the autofume cigar lighter below the clock.

And cool clock! I would say that's an owner addition as the ashtray always is in that location, but it's either a very professional installation with turned-over edges, or it was done at the factory. Very interesting. Never seen that before.

And the clock is specifically for Porsche, as it has the green face. It even looks like the clock is made by Veigel. Is that a 3 55 date code on the back? Porsche stopped using Veigel speedos and tachs in mid-'54, so kinda neat to see a clock made by Veigel from '55 that is specifically for Porsches.

The tach is the standard 1955 VDO tach for a 1500. Redline at 5000.

Don't now much about the Becker Monza radios from '55. Perhaps some detail photos of the model and back side might help ID it. Generally, Porsches got Telefunkens from the factory in 1955. But Beckers were installed earlier. A friend has a different type of Becker in his '53 coupe. Factory radio.

The knob on the glove box and the other one like it are from cars 1950 to early 1954, so not original to this dash. These were used for the ashtray and glove box on coupes. Cabriolets did not have them on the glovebox, and instead had a keyed lock. If you remove the glove box knob, you may notice that the spacing between the holes mounting it is wider than the original hole spacing for the '55 knob that was originally on it.

The fuel level gauge is probably original to the dash for 1955, but the oil pressure gauge is a later addition. Normally a '55 would have a small oil temp gauge with a long capillary tube running to the motor.

That extra bracket is for the speedo. The VDO gauge brackets for mid-'54 to '55 were very deep, and the speedo one was different from the tach one, due to the tach having the drive coming out the back at a 45 degree angle.

Notice how the holes for the speedo (missing) and tach have a particular shape to them with the rolled edges top and bottom? The dash is curved but the rim that meets up with the gauge is straight. Would be interesting to see if the hole for the clock has the same features. If it does, that means this might have been done this way at the factory.

Would also love to see more detail photos of the clock. My '53 coupe had an aftermarket clock installed in the same location. They cut out the ashtray to make room for it. No longer have the clock, but would love to see details of these looked like.

[flynt]

Wow - that is a ton of info! Thanks a ton for taking the time fellas.
I agree - I absolutely need a car to go with this stuff. Missed out on a '59 the other day, so bummed. Wouldn't go with the dash, but would have been nice to putt around in.

James - I'll look a little harder at the clock and shoot more photos. If you click on any of the photos I posted it'll take you to my photobucket account with more images. I'll pull the clock and take a few more photos tonight. Yes, it is a Veigel, and yes it's a 6/55 date code. There's also a stamp with what looks like it might be the production week?

The Becker Mexico radio is another oddball. The plug on the cable doesn't match the power source. I'll get more detailed photos of that as well.

[356Garage]

Hi Flynt

I'm looking for a Pre A dash is it for sale? I see you where the one that beat me to buying the dash. I have the car just missing the dash. chat soon florian

[flynt]

More photos:
Here's the clock pulled out of the dash. Bracket is longer on one side to fit the dash just right.

Hole is fabricated after the fact. Looking a little closer with the clock pulled out you can see where the ashtray used to be. Weird that it was filled and then the lip was rolled, though..

Date stamps on speedo and fuel gauge. James - You're right about the pressure gauge. Made in '70.

And just for fun - crayon on dash top.. Anybody have a '55 with a VIN ending in 76?

[flynt]

[James Davies]

Great detective work flynt!

Yeah, looks like the clock was added, but very professionally. Now the only trick would be to figure out if the dash has been repainted. From the "76" on the back, it looks like the back has not been repainted. That's factory paint I suspect. Silver metallic.

Dashboards were painted in the following way at Reutter (the factory):

1) Primer over the whole thing, front and back. The primer used was grey I believe in 1955. 1953 and earlier it was a red oxide primer. Could be either I guess.

2) Whole dash painted body color, front and back. Looks like silver metallic in this case?

3) Front of dash painted a darker color w/flattener to match or contrast with the interior, especially if the body color was a light color. So perhaps this explains the black dash front. Usually there is overspray of this darker color on the backside too.

And that's it! Any extra colors or layers would be post-factory. Paint archaeology may be required to see if yours is original paint. All the scratch marks on the back were done by the factory so that the electrical components are grounded properly to the chassis. Flash rust is common on these scratched areas, which then results in the 6 volt electrical system not working as well as it did when new.

If it looks like the the paint around the clock is intact on the back, then it was probably a factory installed clock. Porsche only had stampings for the ashtray dashes, so if someone wanted something different, Reutter had to modify an existing stamping. So if the paint is original and intact, then perhaps that explains the professional rolled edge as well - it was done at the factory. Unique!

Thanks for the further photos. Really cool clock, with quite a long winding arm. It must be an 8-day clock or so? It is obviously mechanical. The hole in the back would have been covered with fabric tape. Veigel used black fabric tape to cover up holes in their housings that weren't being used. A kludge, but that's how they did it. You can see the residual sticky stuff around the hole.

Btw, those little items - the chrome collars - one with female threads is for the headlight switch and the other with male threads for the choke pull. And the little right-angle dowel-looking things with threads are for holding the interior door handles in place. These often get lost, so nice to have some spares.

Finally, that Becker Mexico looks like a standard Mexico radio that was used (though rarely) on 1956-57 Porsche 356A cars. It was top of the line, as it had AM and FM, though it looks like yours has limited FM range only up to 100 MHz. Some went up to 108 MHz. The really unique thing about your radio is that it seems to be earlier, and uses a built-in speaker with a pod mount for the VW and pre-A Porsche. Don't know if that is original, or a later Becker Mexico was put into one of those early pods. It is certainly unique, stylish and very cool. FWIW, a friend's '53 coupe came with a Becker Monza, which is a pod-style radio that can be used in the car or removed and used in the house plugged into a wall socket. It even has a carrying handle. =)

The two long black metal struts with the slotted ends are for bracing the bottom of the dash - one either side of the radio pod. One end attaches to the bottom of the dash (you should see holes there), and the other end to the defroster tubes on the car chassis. I don't know what that silver-colored bracket is in the photo between them. Perhaps some sort of radio mounting device? Never seen that before.

Anyway, good luck with finding a pre-A to fit your dash!

[James Davies]

Flynt, I think that clock came originally in that dash from the factory.

Since I've last posted, I've found a couple photos of cars that have large clocks installed in this same location, including one on a Reutter factory accessory brochure from 1953, which leads me to believe that this option was done at the factory.

Anyway, really cool!

[roy mawbey]

Like James I found a nice photo of a 55 pre-a fully loaded with accessories including the Veigel manually operated clock also in the same place as yours.
In the article the photograph is in, they state the main instruments are VDO and the complete switch from Veigel to VDO took place between November 1953 to June 1954.

Its clear the the Clock from Veigel I guess had to be ordered separately by the factory then after June 54.

What is interesting the photo (I could copy?)also shows the same Becker radio fitted in place. ( Or it looks the same to me )

This one of the last? 1955 pre-A cars when photographed had only 34,000km from new and was in superb original condition when I purchased the magazine it was shown in 23 years ago.

Roy
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Roy
RHD356A super75 106954

[James Davies]

Hi Roy, I'd be thrilled to see the photo and/or article.

I just tried to upload my photos here, but no luck. Here's a link to the late-1952 car that has the clock at the start of the Mille Miglia in early 1954.

https://revslib.stanford.edu/catalog/df302hh7741

If you zoom in, you can see the clock. This is a transition car, between 1952 and 1953 model years with chassis 11779 to ~11800. These cars had 1953 chassis and running gear, but still had 1952 bodywork. The clock installation here looks the same as the one in the Reutter brochure I mentioned, which one can see in Frank Jung's "Porsche 356 by Reutter" book.

[roy mawbey]

Flynt and James,

Attached the 2 photos I have taken and copied. The first one shows the interior and the the second the text describing the instruments and clock.

Only when I studied today the text above the clock information did I notice the writer had mentioned 'Blaupunkt ' for the radio. To me it looks exactly like yours Flynt. Maybe that's how it was for the radios then. My brother in his 51 car had Telefunken and in our 1952 car we had a radio blanking plate only.

Hope the pics come out okay.

Roy
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Roy
RHD356A super75 106954

[James Davies]

Great photo Roy. Thanks for sharing.

Looks like this must be a very late '55, as they've already put the full horn ring on the steering wheel, a 356A feature. Did you catch the chassis number of this car in the article? Beautiful interior.

[roy mawbey]

James the article advises its a 1955 1500S coupe chassis 53528 This indicates a late summer 55 car? with the 356A coming out that Autumn. The 7 page article was in ' 911 and Porsche world ' for Jan / feb 1993.

Roy
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Roy
RHD356A super75 106954

[James Davies]

Thanks Roy. That would be May 1955 I think, based on the following Kardex dates:

53466 3 May 1955
53528
53542 10 May 1955

Perhaps just some mild upgrades done to the car over its lifetime. Those half horn rings were super fragile and broke easily. Gorgeous car!

[flynt]

Roy and James - thanks a ton for all the help!
Mystery solved.

The back of my dash looks like it was painted the same color as the one in the photo. Looks like the crayon on the underside says 76 - presumably last 2 of the VIN..

[RadojewskiPierre]

here is the dashboard of my french preA October 1952

the clock stamped 52

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52 microbus
64 singlecab
64 highroof
67 panel

[RadojewskiPierre]

looking the #17

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52 microbus
64 singlecab
64 highroof
67 panel

[flynt]

Sorry for bumping such an old thread..

I'm going to sell all this pre-A stuff. Back when I got it I had all the time in the world and disposable income, making a Pre-A replica project seem feasible. Now I have twin babies, the house needs a roof, and no spare time in my foreseeable future! If anybody here is interested, please reach out. Otherwise I might list it in the classifieds here, 356 registry, or the auction site.

My email is flynt (dot) matthew (at) gmail

Thanks again for all the help!

[PD41]

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