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Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread
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george4888 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

I don't think it matters which of the fuel barbs you use to connect to the fuel tank or more so, to the fuel pump. If you are using the stock VW Bug fuel pump, run the hose from the outlet on the pump to the forward fuel fitting on the Dell carb, then attach the two carbs with the fittings pointing towards the rear of the engine. I route my fuel hose, from carb to carb, across the rear of the engine, drilling small holes in the edge of the fan shroud and using ty-wraps , the nylon wire ties you can buy at any auto parts store, to hold the fuel hose on the back of the fan shroud and that keeps it from getting into the fan shroud blower fan area. Also, gives the engine a reasonable clean look.

If you use either the manual VW fuel pump or an electric operated fuel pump, located up front, under the gas tank area, you will have the mess screen inside the stock gas tank, plus always put a small inline fuel filter somewhere before the electric pump or when using the manual fuel pump, I place the inline gas filter under the car, between the metal fuel line and the hose, leading into the engine compartment. Reason why ? Should there be a small gas leak from that gas filter, the gasoline will leak out under the car and away from any heat source. Just my theory as I hate seeing gas filters between the stock fuel pump and the carb, be it one or two carbs. You know, VW factory never placed any fuel filter in line or between the stock fuel pump and the single stock carb. The Beetles had the mess gas filter in the gas tank and that was the only gas filter.

Should not matter which of the "barbs" you put the hose on, just depends on how you want it to look. And, I think each carb has it's own built in small gas filter, so you will have plenty of filters in your gasoline system.

Dual 44's Dells,,,,, used to work good,,,, but I had problems finding parts, like jets for them.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Quote: "VW factory never placed any fuel filter in line or between the stock fuel pump and the single stock carb. The Beetles had the mess gas filter in the gas tank and that was the only gas filter."

Just my two cents: I dismantled an original fuel pump and found that VW has a very fine mesh screen in the fuel pump that is their filtering system.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Maybe, in the old style 1960's fuel pumps, but not so in the newer fuel pumps most people use, needed to clear the alternator housing. Just my two cents. Basically, the mess screen would not be what most consider a good gas filter and again, IF the person with the dual carb set up is using an electric fuel pump, they have to have a filter in between the gas tank and the fuel pump, to protect the electric pump from damage.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Even when using a stock pump I run a filter inline before it. If the screen in the tank ever fails (which they often do from corrosion and vibration) the filter will catch all the debris before it wrecks the pump.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

That is why I always check the gas tank mess filter and replace it. It does keep out large items from getting into the fuel lines and in the stock lines, they are small on ID, so the mess screen is needed. On any rebuilt Beetle I inspect and change out the fuel tank screen filter. Just seems like the normal thing to do and to make sure that fuel fitting coming out of the tank is sealed and not leaking. It's small cost thing, once done, good for many, many years. ---George K. ----
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback and the discussion. Both of my barbs on the left carb point to the front of the car. The hose comes up and connects to one barb (either barb) and the other is a straight hose from left to right. Also behind the fan shroud using the oil breather bracket at the mid point between carbs.

My fuel pump and filter are in fact located under the car behind rear seat as described above. I will need to look and see the sequence.

My tank is a newer cylinder aluminum tank, so any particulate in my gas is the gas itself or the user (me)... and that wont happen.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Your electric pump should be relocated under the tank at the front of the car. They are better pushers than pullers and you'll burn them out if they have to suck fuel all the time. I hope the pump and filter are outside the passenger compartment not under the back seat?

brad
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

oh yes they are outside the passenger compartment. Pretty much have to remove the left rear tire to access.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Mount your pump as close to the tank as possible and put the filter between the tank and the pump

brad
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

george4888 wrote:
You know, VW factory never placed any fuel filter in line or between the stock fuel pump and the single stock carb. The Beetles had the mess gas filter in the gas tank and that was the only gas filter.


Shame on you

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um...
you do realise the fuel pumps all had a fine mesh screen inside right? even on alternator cars? the original pumps up until the end of carburetors all had these internal filters...




most aftermarket pumps are crap. put a filter above your trans before the pump and after the line in the tunnel to keep the crap out of it, or it will get a torn diaphragm and fail.

and keep the hokey plastic filter away from the engine!


seriously why does everybody put the same filter in that same spot? hivemind much?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

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Finished reinstalling all of the engine tin, manifolds, carbs, generator and new serpentine belt. Thanks to all in this thread for the assist on the fuel lines.... learned a lot. After 7 months of cleaning, polishing, painting, replacing and fabricating the car started on first turn of the key. Still need to move that coil, but waiting for the bracket. Thanks again.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Most of the early fuel pumps with the many screws in them might have had a small gas filter in them, but I was thinking when I wrote " no gas filters inline with the carb" about newer available pumps.

Since the new fuel pumps I have been buying for the past 10 years do not have any screwed on top, maybe my statement is now true, there is no gas filter unless one installs it , inline.

The picture of the pump you showed I do not think is for the use on the alternator changed engines as it has to be slanted to clear the alternator housing. As stated, the newer ones are sealed up, and I cannot imagine how one would clean any filter inside them, IF there is a gas filter. The only pumps I use are either electric ones under the gas tank with a gas filter before the pump or the newer sealed up alternator style, slanted fuel pumps.

There is a difference in how one sees things, when you work on the VW's every day of your life and do so currently, than having gone back in history to find the old screwed top pumps or the one pictured, with the one screw in the top and the filter. Actually think my statement was correct in saying VW never put a gas filter inline, between the fuel pump and the carb if you show one inside any of the old style fuel pumps.

Looking at the beautiful picture of someone's engine, you know, if you read Dr. Porsche's notes, he stated to never use screws on vertical surfaces as they will vibrate loose. VW used machine bolts, not screws on the vertical surfaces of the fan shroud to hold the generator or alternator plate to the fan shroud. Look it up and tell me I am also wrong on that hardware use. The use of the serpentine belt can cause advanced wear on the small main bearing, located just behind the crankshaft pulley, as the tension has to be tighter on that belt, than what VW recommended for use on their air cooled engine. Look in the owner's manual, any year and tell me I am wrong that there should be at least 1/2 inch to 5/8 inch play in the V-belt. Show me that much "play" in the serpentine belt tightness. The specs for the serpentine belt call for a tighter installation of the belt or it will slip.

So, if you are still using the outdated fuel pumps, perhaps you have the clogged up factory filter inside it. If you are using sheet metal screws to hold your coil on the fan shroud, good luck with that mounting process as if you actually drive your car, as I do every day, the coil will vibrate and wipe out your pretty fan shroud. On the attachment of the alternator to the fan shroud, should have followed the factory engineers and used machine bolts, not screws. On the belt choice, it's wrong.

People build pretty looking engines but they will not last very long, due to many mistakes and not following what VW engineered. I would rather be able to put 100,000 miles on my engine, then have it look pretty.

What to bet, nobody takes the one screwed on top , fuel pump , apart, to clean that fuel filter inside it ? I have not seen any aftermarket pumps I have bought in many years, with the one screw top. I will cut apart one of the "new" pump, everyone sells as you have me curious if they are still putting a filter inside them. If so, why do 99% of the engines I see have an inline filter. I guess, all the other VW repair shops have no clue about if or if not the new fuel pumps have a filter inside them. So, cutting one open for discussion purposes. I will let everyone know the results.

Enjoy your VW, follow the planned engineering concepts Dr. Porsche used and what the VW factory used . I doubt we are smarter than the VW factory engineers, but people will sell anything to put on these engines, to make money.

I don't know where someone thought of using the serpentine belt set up. On the water cooled engines, the belt had teeth in it, not groves following the belt, going round and round. The clogs or teeth in the belt allowed for less tension of what some think was a serpentine belt, so VW engineers did not use as much tension on their timing belt. The small main bearing found close to the crankshaft pulley is so small and it cannot hold up very long with a tight serpentine belt. In actual testing on our engines, we found that in 1000 miles, the bearing had too much wear and on one engine, the pull was so much, due to being built to run over 6000 rpm, the serpentine belt actually pulled the pulley up and cut into the case. Sorry, I am discussing two topics, but just could not let the nice appearing engine photo go without correct discussion about it's assembly. I am trying to help someone have a longer lasting engine.

--George K. ---
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Elements of good design:
-a screen or at least coarse mesh in the tank for the pickup with multiple holes<1/2 size of the pickup ID, to prevent the tube being plugged by a singular thing in the tank. (yes I have had that problem, 78 bus)
-a replaceable fuel filter below the tank to actually catch dirt, and be replaced someday.
-small coarse screen filters directly before the pump and carburetor, to prevent stray particles from getting into the unit and jamming a valve, usually built INto the unit, but in absence, external.
GOOD pumps and carburetors will have this built-in, but some do not.


Simple right?
I just re-built the fuel system on a old land cruiser, and-
the in tank screen was missing, the fuel pump was poor quality, AND
the actual cause of the current problem, was the small screen directly above the carburetor inlet needle was made of a nylon-like plastic, and this plastic melted in the ethanol gas, and the goop plugged the inlet needle.

The screen melted
NOW THAT'S IRONY

I have added a copper coarse screen in the tank, a large GM filter before the carter rotary pump, and then a foot before the carb a small metal case fuel filter. All Gates brand fuel hose.
Now it's GOOD TO GO, or rather, it's still a old POS, but the fuel system works perfect for now and for 5-10 years in the future

Putting a fuel filter before the fuel filter, on the carter rotary......seems redundant, but it is best to leave that filter on the pump forever, don't mess with it. Trust me on that Shocked
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

As the owner of the car pictured above, the screws that are holding the beauty ring on, as well as the tin are no different than the OEM bolts except for the head which is allen screw. Threads and length and obviously the pitch is identical. The only real difference is these are stainless steel.

I am fairly certain I can tighten these to the same point. Is there still an issue or concern?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Stainless steel screws. I know these, as I use them elsewhere on my Beetle. The thing is that with any screw or allen head screw, one usually does not get them as tight as if using a five sided machine bolt. While the threads are the same depth and size, any screw driven hardware does not get as tight. With the allen head, you might have them tight enough. As you said they are stainless steel, I hope you used anti-seize compound on the threads, as stainless will lock up if there is no anti-seize chemicals on the threads. Also, I am not a chemist, but wonder about stainless steel put into steel threaded welded on nuts, which are in the fan shroud.

I am not a smart person. When I read that Porsche said to use machine bolts on the vertical surfaces and one can use screws on horizontal surfaces, I did not question why. I figure the man who designed the VW and the Porsche cars knows more than I will ever know.

My knowledge of the water cooled stopped back about mid 1990's, but as I recall, VW used a timing belt to turn the overhead cam with teeth on it, not the serpentine belt design you are using on the pretty engine. For working the water pump and alternator and AC compressor, they used a V-belt. Now, I don't know if VW has changed this set up , but the idea was to have less tension on the V-belt drive on those three components to prevent wear to the bushing or bearing in each of those three components. The small main bearing is so, so small by the crankshaft pulley in the air cooled engine and it only gets a small amount of oil flow as VW figured with the somewhat loose V-belt driving only the generator/ alternator and cooling fan, they wanted less tension or stress on that one main bearing. So, the main reason I never use any brand of the serpentine belts, but they do look cool !

Ever notice on the air cooled Porsche 911's, the factory stayed with the V-belt to drive the alternator/ cooling fan ? They continued that V-belt system for about 40 years or more on the production air cooled 911 engines. No serpentine belt. I recall that on the Porsche 928 V8 water cooled engines, there was a monster long belt, but not with the design you are using. Porsche used a flat belt with teeth or clogs to drive the dual overhead cams and the back side which was smooth to drive the alternator and water pump, so one belt did a lot of things on that engine, but they also had larger main bearings inside the engine case. And, on the 924 and 944, same thing, the belt was clogged or with teeth, not like the serpentine belts sold for the Beetles.

Someone saw this serpentine belt used in low pressure applications in industry and came up with the needed tension device and pulley designs to sell them, saying they would work better than the original factory V-belt. I have used the factory designed V-belt on stock to 200 HP all out race engines and with the proper pulley depth, they stay on at high rpms. Or, you might consider it best to have a V-belt slip a little bit, if you continue to run the alternator on a drag strip set up in your Beetle.

Ever see the neat pulley that was out, for sale, a long time ago, which was a reworked AC compressor clutch system, for use on the crankshaft pulley. That was a good idea as one could hit a switch and the fan belt did not turn, for drag racing high rpm use, then leave it switched ON, for street use. But, too expensive to buy. They used the V-belt.

So many interesting products have been made over the years to replace the V-belts, but I think the old factory system still is the best. I do use the newer style Gates ( USA made) V-belts with teeth or notches in the belt as that grabs better than the original V-belt, which came back in the 1960's.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

One of the best running carbs I've ever had was a single 34 that was set up to run on a "Formula V" race car. I've never attempted to run a duel set-up but, if I ever do I'll most definitely (or is it defanitely... Cool ) will return to this post.

Thanks for sharing!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

george4888 wrote:

I am not a smart person. When I read that Porsche said to use machine bolts on the vertical surfaces and one can use screws on horizontal surfaces, I did not question why. I figure the man who designed the VW and the Porsche cars knows more than I will ever know.


I actually prefer to use bolts on most of my tinware these days. stainless with a washer and 10mm head, a drop of oil on the threads when installed. easier to use most anywhere.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Great info in this thread....

I've got dual 40 IDF s on my type 4 72 bus.

Struggling with tuning them.

CSP linkage, but with my setup the center post is offset toward the right side, Also the throttle cable has to bend after coming into the engine bay to attach to the center post.
The linkage arms are significantly different lengths
They also have a 90 degree "kink" in each of them at about the halfway mark.
Can this system be tuned or is it always going to be temperamental?

Because of the twist linkage, the throttle on the left carb is rear and the right is front. I'm assuming if I wanted to go to a bar (which I have in a box) I would have to relocate the throttle to the front on the left carb. Is this possible, easy or difficult?

pardon if this has been covered but I did my best to search before asking, thanks much
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

please post a pic of the setup
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Official Dual Carburetor How To Thread Reply with quote

Thanks for taking a look. It's really cramped in there so I took a few angles of each side

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