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Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:18 am

Hey folks! I have a 56 Beetle and am trying to remove the engine on my 56 oval. My question is about the two bottom bolts. I have found what I think is the bolts, but not sure how to get at them. See the pic attached. Note the bolt the arrow is pointing too, but also note the surrounding brackets. Can I remove that bracket, or is this not even the correct bolt. Any help appreciated.

Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:57 am

Should have a 17mm head and take a 17mm socket or box wrench like the top two nuts.

Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:00 am

That's it, 17mm socket and long extension or socket with universal or use a 17mm wrench

Lay down beneath there and attack from the bottom...I've never had an issue removing it

Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:46 pm

Thanks all for the quick replies. I will take another stab at it. Seemed way to tight for both a box end wrench, and a socket.

Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:53 pm

... if that was mine, I'd jack up the ass and rest the rear wheels on car ramps or jack stands under the frame. Then, shimmy under there, on my back with a 17 mm wrench, a drop light and a small putty knife. Set up the light and use the putty knife to scrape all the crud from around that 17 mm nut... then loosen the nut and remove it... do both sides... the 17 mm nut is on a stud... the top ones are a 17 mm nut on a bolt.

I'd clean it up under there, once the engine is out, from top to bottom.

Another thing I do to all my type ones, I neatly cut an access, like all splits had to 9/52, to gain easy access to that trans area...

... do all that once and you'll be an expert.

Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:58 pm

I haven't done an Oval but I always use a box wrench on my Bus.
No issues.

If the car still drives right now, you could grab some degreaser and visit the local car wash. Use their high pressure sprayers and degreasers to get a bunch of the dirt/grease out of there first.

Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:29 pm

ZENVWDRIVER wrote:

Another thing I do to all my type ones, I neatly cut an access, like all splits had to 9/52, to gain easy access to that trans area...

We've undone some of that type of butchery :? :roll:

Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:59 am

nlorntson wrote: ZENVWDRIVER wrote:

Another thing I do to all my type ones, I neatly cut an access, like all splits had to 9/52, to gain easy access to that trans area...

We've undone some of that type of butchery :? :roll:

Perfect nlorntson, un doing the access would be your prerogative, once the car is yours... LOL, when it's mine, I always make an access... is interesting to me, that VW made such an access and discontinued it in September, 1952... Would you un do that one too?

Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:06 am

My 49 has that access including the bolted on cover, and it sits below a thick, glued on padding, carpet and two bolted on luggage rails. You'd have to completely tear apart your back seat area, pull up the carpet, and glued on padding to get to the cover.

More likely that cover was used for access during assembly at the factory before the interior went in.

Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:42 am

nlorntson wrote: My 49 has that access including the bolted on cover, and it sits below a thick, glued on padding, carpet and two bolted on luggage rails. You'd have to completely tear apart your back seat area, pull up the carpet, and glued on padding to get to the cover...
More likely that cover was used for access during assembly at the factory before the interior went in.

Oh, ho, ho, ho, your assessment of VWs access is inaccurate... first, until 1950, there was no padding or carpet, back there. So, if you have all that, it's a good move for the sound deadening qualities, but is not as original. Second, that access was used initially to check and fill the transmission oil. Until 1950 there was no little side holes in the tranny to add fluid. The fill hole was on top, below that access cover. the dealers could put the car on a lift to gain access, but it could also be checked and filled through that access

I had a 1950 11G early on, then a '49 sedan, in my VW life and I remember that wonderful access. Not butchery, I carefully make a cut and add an oak lip for the cut piece to lay on... you (mistakenly) refer to it as "butchery"... granted, it is not OE, but neither is your glued-in padding and carpet... is your preference, like the access is my preference...

... my little access affords me to gain access to the starter and connections, top engine mounting bolts, fuel line and added fuel filter, trans fluid checking and filling, easy clutch adjusting and other minor conveniences. I can't help it that VW forgot to continue this very handy access. I sure don't enjoy doing all those things laying on the ground and at age, close to 70, would prefer the ease of working comfortably from the top... I often wonder if my critics even do their own maintenance ...

Just so you know, I fasten the metal cover on with screws and install the square weave carpet over the area with no padding, glued only on the vertical plane, with the rest of it laying flat and roll it back, to gain access... with the carpet installed, no harsh critics are the wiser, knowing about my wonderful secret... is for me to enjoy...

Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:41 am

lumbee wrote: Thanks all for the quick replies. I will take another stab at it. Seemed way to tight for both a box end wrench, and a socket.
I use a Craftsman 17mm/19mm box wrench . . . You will get only an eighth of a turn!
Those are the FIRST of the four engine mount nuts to be removed, after disconnecting ALL the cables (2 heater; throttle; choke), ALL the wires, and the fuel line.
After you remove the bottom two nuts, place your jack under the engine and raise the jack just enough to support the weight of the engine.
Lastly, remove the top two bolts and ease the engine out/down.

Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:16 pm

You really need to get a copy of this ASAP:

https://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-Workshop-Manual-...uckgo-d-20

Save your pennies, and search the WWW for used copy if need be, but get one.

Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:27 am

Got it out yesterday. There was a metal bracket that runs along the bottom of the engine that holds what looks to be rubber engine mounts in place. Once I removed that I was able to get at the bolts.

So much oil and gunk on everything its tough to tell whats part of the frame, or what is removable.

At any rate, one I got those bolts removed I had it dropped in about 5 minutes. 8)

Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:23 am

lumbee wrote: Got it out yesterday. There was a metal bracket that runs along the bottom of the engine that holds what looks to be rubber engine mounts in place. Once I removed that I was able to get at the bolts.

What's supporting the rear of the transmission now?

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:06 am

nlorntson wrote: lumbee wrote: Got it out yesterday. There was a metal bracket that runs along the bottom of the engine that holds what looks to be rubber engine mounts in place. Once I removed that I was able to get at the bolts.

What's supporting the rear of the transmission now?

If he doesn't reply then we will know that he is supporting it... :shock:

Seriously that bracket is the rear transmission cradle and it supports the rear of the transmission and the engine. If you removed it then there is nothing supporting the transmission other than the front transmission mount and the axles which are pressing outward on the spring plates. Not a good or safe situation.

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:51 am

ZENVWDRIVER wrote: nlorntson wrote: My 49 has that access including the bolted on cover, and it sits below a thick, glued on padding, carpet and two bolted on luggage rails. You'd have to completely tear apart your back seat area, pull up the carpet, and glued on padding to get to the cover...
More likely that cover was used for access during assembly at the factory before the interior went in.

Oh, ho, ho, ho, your assessment of VWs access is inaccurate... first, until 1950, there was no padding or carpet, back there. So, if you have all that, it's a good move for the sound deadening qualities, but is not as original. Second, that access was used initially to check and fill the transmission oil. Until 9/52 there was no little side holes in the tranny to add fluid. The fill hole was on top, below that access cover. the dealers could put the car on a lift to gain access, but it could also be checked and filled through that access

I had a 1950 11G early on, then a '49 sedan, in my VW life and I remember that wonderful access. Not butchery, I carefully make a cut and add an oak lip for the cut piece to lay on... you (mistakenly) refer to it as "butchery"... granted, it is not OE, but neither is your glued-in padding and carpet... is your preference, like the access is my preference...

... my little access affords me to gain access to the starter and connections, top engine mounting bolts, fuel line and added fuel filter, trans fluid checking and filling, easy clutch adjusting and other minor conveniences. I can't help it that VW forgot to continue this very handy access. I sure don't enjoy doing all those things laying on the ground and at age, close to 70, would prefer the ease of working comfortably from the top... I often wonder if my critics even do their own maintenance ...

Just so you know, I fasten the metal cover on with screws and install the square weave carpet over the area with no padding, glued only on the vertical plane, with the rest of it laying flat and roll it back, to gain access... with the carpet installed, no harsh critics are the wiser, knowing about my wonderful secret... is for me to enjoy...

Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:02 pm

ZENVWDRIVER wrote:

Oh, ho, ho, ho, your assessment of VWs access is inaccurate... first, until 1950, there was no padding or carpet, back there. So, if you have all that, it's a good move for the sound deadening qualities, but is not as original.

1949 deluxe. :D :roll:

Now, let's get back to wondering what's holding up the guys tranny now.

Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:31 pm

nlorntson wrote: . . . let's get back to wondering what's holding up the guys tranny now.
A pair of axle boots!

And speaking of Split-Windows . . . ya gotta check-out the SUPER NICE brown split in the latest Hot VWs magazine! :wink:

Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:14 am

nlorntson wrote: ZENVWDRIVER wrote:

Oh, ho, ho, ho, your assessment of VWs access is inaccurate... first, until 1950, there was no padding or carpet, back there. So, if you have all that, it's a good move for the sound deadening qualities, but is not as original.

1949 deluxe. :D :roll:

Now, let's get back to wondering what's holding up the guys tranny now.

... exactly, a PO (mistakenly) installed all that insulation and carpet over the access, probably at the same time the red plastic was put on the interior panels... good idea for noise suppression... easier to get at the access with no carpet though... I like the din of a good running VW engine.

... i'll bet, the tranny is sagging

Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:01 am

For sure cutting one in is a hack! Some people like some hacks, in this case you like this hack Zen. Similar to all the "bay window" engine accesses cut into split buses, also similar but less noticeable than wheel wells cut to clear tires.

-factory didn't use oak, which will hold moisture and cause rust
-factory had a reinforced "landing" around the hole for strength
-factory cover was ribbed
-factory bolted in, not using Home Depot screws

NLorentsen knows her splits. The beautiful '49 on the cover of the current hotvws belongs to her. I don't know for certain what kind of padding is on a '49 but I do know on an unmodified 51 or 52 that removing the factory luggage rails and carpet is far more work than anything you would need to access from the bottom. An unmodified car with split case and 25/36hp engine is not hard to access the starter, clutch cable, or engine bolts from below with proper tools and jackstands.

Apologies to the OP for the thread hijack. No more from me on this cut luggage area subject